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“We could not find forgiveness, so we left the church”
September 21, 2007 |
Posted by michaelp · Filed Under Christian Life
The new post on “Letters for Leavers” is very sad and touching. I am very angry about it right now. What is the church all about if forgiveness turns to this? Submerger out . . .
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Wow, this really is a sad story. Michael, you may remember that I told you that I experienced a traumatic experience last year. What came from that was my conversion to Calvinism. That experience was really the culmination of an unchecked sin in my life that nearly led to complete disaster for me and several other people. I thank the almighty God in heaven that he changed my heart after this, that with my transformed heart I sought after restoring my broken relationship with him and with my church. The church forgave me, they helped me move on with my life, and now they feel that I’m trustworthy enough to raise me higher in their leadership team. This was not my doing, but God’s work in me. I was humiliated, and they cried with me; I was depressed and disillusioned, and they walked with me; I was sorrowful for my fleshly disobedience and hatred of God and his commands, and they forgave me. If they didn’t do those things for me, and supported me even in my time of humiliation, I don’t know what would have happened. God would have dealt with me in different circumstances, for sure, but man, I can only imagine the kind of screwed up mentality and opinion I would have of the modern Christian church had they not done as Christ would have done.
The passage of the woman caught in adultery may not be in the canon, but the principle is there: I forgive you; now go and sin no more.
I can only imagine the pain that woman and her husband must have felt by being rejected by a Christian church even after their so-called restoration. Sure, the pastor is only human, but God calls us to rise above our mortal bodies and be like Christ, which is why we call ourselves Christians in the first place. May God forgive that church for their sin and restore them….
(Yeah, I’m kinda passionate about this sort of thing too, as you might tell)
I really wish I could encourage these very broken-hearted people and tell them they are not alone, unfortunately. I experienced a very similar thing when I had confessed some sin in my life and step down from ministry. It was during that time that I really began studying and began to come in disagreement with many things that were being taught. I recognized that staying where I was would stunt growth. But during those few months that I was still there, I think the pastors tried but I could tell, especially with the pastor’s wife, that there was still some “remembering”. After I left, it became apparent they would have nothing to do with me.
The worst part about my story, is that my former pastors are family (in-laws). Since I left, I have communicated in various ways. My e-mails and phone calls have gone unreturned. I even went there last Easter as a conciliatory gesture but the silence continues. I would think that even if for their nephew (my son), there would be some attempt at relationship but alas such is not the case.
What I’ve had to recognize is that the lack of love was but a product of the bad teaching that caused me to leave in the first place and that the best thing I could do was love, move on and leave the results up to God. Fortunately, I landed in a good place. And I wish I could shout out to folks in the situation described in the letter that a healthy church will show love and restore and they do exist and seek to find one. We will gain nothing but hurt trying to force people to be what they do not want to be.
Not casting on judgement here, but remember you’re hearing only one side of the story. I have no doubt that many of the letters posted on that web site are rooted in truth. But it would be interesting to also hear the other side. Any good counselor will tell you there are usaully three sides to the story: each party’s side and the truth.
peace,
Bob
LETTER TO MY PASTOR THIS YEAR AFTER BEING FRUSTRATED WITH NO SUPPORT, ACTION, PLAN TO FULFILL RESTORATION
(He’s been preaching on revival…)
What comes first?
Restoration?
Revival?
Can we be revived in the church if we can’t be restored in the church?
Let’s just say that it was you.
And let’s say the program for pastors didn’t exist. (There is a program for pastors that works through it while keeping their position as pastor, but NO program for the other members/leaders/attendees) You went through a year of counseling, meetings and Bible studies with your pastor/overseer and then…that’s it.
BUT you suddenly notice you are not the pastor of a church again. In fact, no ones even talking to you about the prospect of it.
What would you do?
We tried volunteering for something – getting involved again. It didn’t work well. We felt worse afterwards.
We had spent a month preparing, building, painting, buying everything for Salvation Island and as we are just starting to set up, we hear…
“Someone from your team needs to apologize (to my wife)”…. for a miscommunication about what stays on or off the stage. I went to apologize to her but she was interrupted after I said we were sorry. She turned and walked away without a word.
We are all on the same team, right?
At the end, everyone helped get everything back on the stage and left us alone to clean up our mess that was moved off the stage. We were the only ones in the building hours later.
That experience showed me…
I can’t force my way back into being active in our church. I can only wait to be asked to do something. That way I know you want what I can offer. After all, you know what our strengths are and you know what our weaknesses are. And by the end of this letter, you should know we are sick of sitting on a pew!
One thing I know… if we want true revival we need to be honest. No more church mask.
The mask blocks the light!
THE REPLY
Thanks for being real.
Amen.
Regarding being real?
Someday, it will all be perfect.
But I don’t think that will be on this side.
On this side, there is still too much human nature to deal with.
In the meantime, revive us O Lord.
Waiting for the other side,
I was so disheartened by his reply.
I cried out to God to do something. This didn’t sound right.
10 minutes after this reply he called and said he didn’t mean it and that we should meet so we can make things official and come up with a plan.
That was in March of this year.
AT THE END OF JULY
AN EVENT WE ARE NORMALLY ASKED TO BE A PART OF CAME…
I wrote to my pastor…
Regarding the picnic, the calendar says
P Brad to connect with ***** core (deb MY HUSBANDS SISTER!/ linda / dave / elmer / others?)”
Rick and I were considered part of that “core” group BEFORE the big FALL.
Why now AFTER RESTORATION are we still on the outs and never considered or called upon?
I do not feel that (my husband) was really restored. Do you remember your promise? (He promised everything would be back to that way it was after restoration.) You gave me your word and said you have never lied to me, and that I was to trust you.
This fish is needing water!
HIS REPLY
I will answer your question if you answer mine. When the entire church was asked each Sunday for the past month to sign up, did you sign up?
Jump in fishy, the water’s fine.
I REPLIED
that we were planning to help that weekend.
HE NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION EVEN AFTER I EMAILED HIM.
My sister-in-law and everyone else on the core team had been called as normal.
Why we weren’t was never answered.
This is only one aspect of it, yes.
But it all made sense in the end when my pastor said he’s just a man and cannot forget what my husband did. He also thought my husband should have repented more in front of him, broke down and cried during one of their sessions (A YEAR EARLIER).
THERE WAS NO REAL FORGIVENESS!
I have many similiar comments from my 18 and 19 year old students in regards to confession and forgiveness at their home churches. One student recently told me about a time a church forced a young girl struggling with an unplanned pregnancy to publicly confess in the middle of a service. Instead of this concentration on shame, we should concentrate more on healing and reconciliation. The woman in the letter was clearly looking for that in her moment of trial, and the young girl who is preparing to be a single mother most certainly needs community support. I also agree with Bob that we only have one side of the story. When churches require these dramatic scenes, they should provide clearer reasons for their choices. If not, then more letters will continue to appear.
Good comment. Thanks for the testimonies.
I agree with Bob as well. Yet I can’t help but see this story as accurate. I have seen this many times. I think that it is more common than we like.
PLEASE TELL ME YOUR OPINION…
After being at the church and very involved for 10 years, we know a lot of people and have made some close friendships.
When our close friends ask us why we haven’t been coming to church, what’s wrong, etc… do you think we should say nothing?
It’s not like we “backslid” and have decided that we don’t need church. We haven’t turned our back on the mission or purpose of our church.
I think I should be able to tell my few close friends what is happening in our life IF they ask, and be honest.
Our church has strict rules/policies/punishment for talking to eachother in gossip.
I do not feel this is gossip.
What do you think?
That is a hard one. I struggle with that myself. I honesty cannot tell you. I think that it could be bad and it could be good. I am not sure there is a right answer that would govern every situation.
Krissy,
I concur with Michael in it being a decision that is governed by the necessity of your situation and only you can make that.
I will, however, relay some observations concerning my seemingly severed relationships. Like you, as I very plugged in..at the core. I served on the worship team for 4 years, I taught and even had occasion to prepare and deliver Sunday messages as a pre-sermon or as part of a speaker platform, and was part of the leadership team.
After I stepped down but was still at the ministry, I really wanted to prove to the pastors that I truly was repentant and I had no desire to go down that path again. After I left, I noticed that that same desire to prove that I really was on the right course, was still there. And honestly, it guided my desire to be reconciled. I really wanted them to see that I was ok.
What I had to realize, for me, was that the only proving that I needed to do was to God. He is the one to which I am accountable. I had a choice. I could focus my energy on forcing a relationship, where clearly one party was not interested in participating OR I could look at the situation for what it was and devote my energies and affections towards progress. As Paul says in Philippians 3:13,14…but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
In the end, I cannot tell you what you should do. But look at II Corinthians 2:1-8 and Paul’s commendation to the church to reaffirm their love for the one that had fallen, that Paul had to treat so severly in I Cor 5 because of sin. And look at vs. 7..they should forgive and comfort him,otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Is this what you have experienced? If not, why?
Anyway, my comment is getting waaay long. But my heart does go out to you because I can very well empathize with your situation. I pray that you and your husband continue to seek the Lord and bear all to Him. He knows your hurt and pain well.
Peace be with you my sister.
Lisa
See how much better you girls can deal with this kind of stuff…what Lisa said!
“But look at II Corinthians 2:1-8 and Paul’s commendation to the church to reaffirm their love for the one that had fallen, that Paul had to treat so severly in I Cor 5 because of sin. And look at vs. 7..they should forgive and comfort him,otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Is this what you have experienced? If not, why?”
Are you asking if we experienced this from the church?
Michael..LOL! I don’t think it’s a girl thing but an experience thing.
Krissy, yes that is what I’m asking you to consider. Paul took the lead in severly chastising a brother that was in sin and then beat up on the Corinthian church because they allowed it. He even instructed them to put the brother out. But look at the beauty of this passage in II Cor 2, where Paul is now telling them the actions were necessary but as the brother has repented, that they need to love and comfort him. Show him you all have his back!
Because THAT is a picture of how it should be. Are we perfect? no. Is any church perfect? no. But we have a model to follow and that model flows from an understanding of the love that we are to have one for another as is outlined in scripture. Also look at Acts 2:44-47 describing the early church.
On the flip side, consider James 3:16 - For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.
Which scenario do you think would be more beneficial for you?
Trust me when I say there is nothing to be gained from wanting people be what they do not want to be. What’s interesting is that I am now part of a FABULOUS, loving church, that ironically enough has a significant history of folks coming in from abusive church situations. And they do well at it!
I look at my last 1 1/2 years and stand in awe of what God has done because I can look back and truly see growth and progress. For the severed relationship that I lost, I have gained a more considerable treasure, including once again serving in ministry.
Krissy, there is hope. Trust God with all your heart. Be strong and courageous. Fear God, not men.
Krissy,
In looking back over your comments, a couple more things popped up in my mind regarding my personal situation that I wanted to share with you:
1) I was told that my restoration would come being inserted back into ministry at my church then. My pastor did not believe that people should step down and then leave without being restored. But what I came to realize was that my restoration occurred over 2000 years ago at calvary, where a sacrifice for sin was made for sins of all times. My repentence tuned me in to my restoration (I John 1:9). Yes, there is a spiritual maturity that should be fostered through loving relationships and accountability in order to step back in to ministry. But I did not need to be behind a keyboard on Sundays to show that I was restored.
2)I John 4:18 - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. In my situation, I had to question any fear that I had involving not doing the right thing.
People are people and subject to human nature. We can be nosy, arrogant and wrong all at the same time. Thank God for His grace. But as a member of the body, people are needed, not just any people but people who see other people through the eyes of Christ, who are willing to love and forgive and help heal.
That’s all for now. I apologize if I’ve overburdened with comments.
We were not welcomed back into the fold.
The restoration had been dropped.
The last time I saw my pastor, he suggested we leave the church and find another, even a new denomination!
Even at this point, if we were brought back into the fold - loved and accepted - as if it never happened, we would forgive them.
Krissy,
Again I say, that unfortunately your situation is not unique. I had a chance to read through the comments on the Letters from Leavers site. I was warmed by the sentiments that others expressed towards you. I hope you realize that this is not the way a church should be.
Like you, I was afraid. Because so many times my pastor had said publicy said that if God has called you here and you leave you will never fulfill God’s plan. But I had to go because I would never grow where I was and growth IS God’s plan for my life. What my pastor said was not biblical. And I’m am pretty sure that I was talked about badly after I left and some may have even believed that I was rebelling.
People will think what they want to think but we live to please the Lord. Do you know that recently the worship leader that I served under, who served the church faithfully for 7 years, realized that He and wife needed to be somewhere else for their own growth. He did everything according to the established protocol and gave a one month notice. The pastor told him to leave immediately and never spoke to him since. After 7 years of faithful, sacrificial service!
It hurts when people reject because we want to be accepted. But you ARE accepted in Christ. People are fallible and sometimes want to control and manipulate. Unfortunately, this is the inclination of a sinful nature. And if allowed to rule, can leave people in ruins, who like you just want the right thing.
Again, I pray that you seek God and know that He loves you uncondionally.
Do you think Jesus would want us to work it out? Any of us who are hurt, need restoration, etc… Don’t you think he’s want us to try to work it out before we leave?
I think he would. In our case, it doesn’t seem like the church wants to.
I don’t think my pastor knows just how deeply it hurt to hear him tell me to find another church.
I know God loves us!
But we feel very undone right now.
I don’t think it would be responsible for me to give a definative answer. But I will say that there were times in the bible that people that walked together had to part ways at some point. Look at Acts 15:36-40. In my situation, I thought like you because after all the bible does speak of unity and reconciliation. But now, I thank God for my split because it led me to such a better place. If I was determined to work something out with my former pastors, I would be spiritually suffocating right now, I’m sure. I have had to place my desire for reconciliation into God’s hands and He will work that out at the right time. And ask yourself what is there to be worked out where one party does not want to work it out. The beauty of the body of Christ is that it is not limited to one particular local assembly. And I pray that you find those in the body who will want to love you and see that you and your husband heal and are nurtured. Peter says in II Peter 3:18 to grow in the grace and true knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Please ask yourself if this would be possible going back.
Krissy, I will pray for you because I really desire for you grab hold of everything that God has for you, including loving relationships within the body of Christ. Take care my sister.
thanks for linking to the site! I also appreciate the conversationt that has taken place in the responses to your post. This is what we were hoping for when we created the site.
Tim
LFL
Tim, I think it makes the pain we experienced all the more worth it when it can bring forth some encouragement(II Cor 1:3,4)
I wonder where the love is in all this, this experiences of church leaders judging and expelling people who don’t meet their standards (theirs not Gods). Modern day Christianity has become a very pharasitical religion if you ask me, based on do’s and dont’s, not love. Based on what you appear to be, not who you really are.
Didn’t Jesus call the religious leaders of his day “A Brood of vipers”?
I think we are getting close to that with our church leadership in our day. Just my opinion though.
A member of the board of elders called us and scheduled a meeting this coming Tuesday night at 6:00 CST. Please pray for us. We want to speak truth, not blame, so that others will not be hurt in the future.