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Can we make the Spirit more active?
July 30, 2007 |
Posted by michaelp · Filed Under Christian Philosophy
So my wife and I went on a cruise to Alaska last week with members of our old church (we moved away). The topic was Making Marriage Last a Lifetime and it was excellent. When not learning what my love language was, I read J.P. Moreland’s new book The Kingdom Triangle
I thought the book was very good, it spelled out the trouble the (Western) church faces and how we need to fix by balancing reason, spiritual formation and the Holy Spirit. I thought the most interesting part (besides the invaluable bibliography in the back) was his reminder to us that Christianity is a supernatural religion. He states that outside the Western church the Spirit is very active with mass conversions and miracles. According to him the majority of 3rd World conversions are directly the result of miracles and signs.
I don’t disagree with him, and he was very careful to separate this from the excesses of Pentecostalism, but I found myself wishing the Christianity I see was more supernatural. It seems to be the biblical and early church model, but seems much different than what we see today. It seems we are almost deists by default as the Spirit does not seem to move in our sphere in obvious ways like it apparently does elsewhere.
My question is why? Is the Spirit not willing/able to do so because our naturalist mindset does not allow it? At first glance, it seems to me that the Spirit can and will do whatever it wants regardless of our mindset. But Mark 6 seems to imply that the actions of the Spirit can be limited by unbelief:
“Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. And Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor, except in his hometown and among his relatives and in his own household.” And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. And he marveled because of their unbelief.
And he went about among the villages teaching.”
Are we left only with the teaching of the Word because we do not believe the Spirit can work miracles today?
The flip side, if I engage in spiritual formation, etc. will this make the Spirit more active externally to the point of supernatural healing, etc.
A vision of a church acting with supernatural power is great to dream about…(Let Dawkins call that a delusion!!) but I guess its the calvinist in me that feels its the Spirit’s decision and not mine.
Is the Spirit choosing to work elsewhere and not here (I know, I know he is active here, but I mean on a less obvious, more behind the scenes level, read the book and the attested miracles that occured overseas and you’ll know what I mean) or are we quenching it?
I really want to know!!
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We had ths discussion on a forum I visit and I feel our intellect somtimes gets in the way of the spirit.
The Message of the Cross
1:18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1:19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will thwart the cleverness of the intelligent.”
1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the expert in the Mosaic law? Where is the debater of this age? Has God not made the wisdom of the world foolish?
1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching.
1:22 For Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks ask for wisdom,
1:23 but we preach about a crucified Christ a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.
1:24 But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
Dennis
Doc,
How does JP address the possibility that these observations might be completely attributable to culture and may have nothing to do with a different degree of the Spirit’s activity?
It seems to me the Spirit of God does whatever He wants, wherever He wants, whenever He wants. His activity just looks different in different cultures.
hmmm… I’m not sure. It sounds like your asking if the Spirit acts objectively the same throughout the world, but we see it differently through our subjective culture lens.
I don’t think he addressed it that way as his argument was that the Spirit is acting objectively different. For example missionaries who return stating that 9 out of 10 conversions they saw were akin to Paul’s “stoplight on the road” version, not the “argued into making a decision type” that we see here.
I agree that that I can’t understand how we can affect the Spirit that way…that was why I posted.
But if we accept that there are objective differences in the Spirit’s activity the question is why? and does anything we do change that or is it wholly the Spirit’s decision?
I don’t know…
to dennisjanet:
1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching.
1:22 For Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks ask for wisdom,
1:23 but we preach about a crucified Christ a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.
that would almost seem to be an argument that the nonmiraculous Western version is the correct one……..I hadn’t considered that
I guess I would question whether one can really say that the Spirit is working objectively differently. I grew up in Southern and Western Africa and spent a summer of college doing mass evangelism in remote parts of East Africa. I saw a great deal of enthusiasm, but little fruit that remained.
I wonder if we confuse a culture’s predisposition to superstition with a predisposition to faith. I think superstition is an enemy of the gospel in primitive cultures as scientific naturalism is in modern ones.
However, if the Spirit wants to work miracles in one culture and not in another, I guess He can do that. I still would wonder if there’s anything we can do to change it.
What does Dr. Morland prescribe?
Catching up on the posts and just thinking about this aloud…
Can we as humans _make_ God do anything? Are we sovereign over Him, or is He truly sovereign over us?
If the former, then it would be good if we knew what we needed to do in order to get God to open up and start the miracles - if we are in fact the reason He is holding back. [As a note, I believe that God can perform a miracle any time He wishes, although I am open to the fact that He might have reasons not to.]
However, if it is the latter then the question itself is flawed as God will perform a miracle as it pleases Him, whether I believe it or am even aware of it or not.
With any true miracle there are going to be people who do believe it and those who doubt it both before and after it is performed. We see this all throughout the Biblical record so I don’t think we can say that doubting or disbelief somehow prevents God from acting as He pleases. Having said all of that; though the Holy Spirit is a different person of the Trinity than God the Father, they are both the one God. I don’t think that there would be such a fundamental difference between them in that one would act irrespective of our belief and another would be waiting for it. Seems a bit confusing to me. ;^)
I agree with Sam (who, btw, is a good friend fo mine and we like to chew on these ideas) - what does Dr. Moreland indicate is a solution?
-steve
Steve Who?
There was one?
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